About Monks

You're high. Seriously. Monks have great ranged defense. Sure, a shield blocks most arrows (Hello Flame Arrow. Hello Arrow of Penetration.) but a monk can block them all. Also, you can't stab anyone with a shield, so using a shield halves your offensive options. You can also get a hardened sword or a pro-magic if you fear spellballs. If you're a person who prefers florentine, which a great number of fighters are, this is a huge power boost. Tired of having your dual short swords shot away as a warrior? Play monk! If you're having trouble blocking our slow Amtgard arrows, you probably need to work on your hand-eye coordination in a major way.

C. Poor magic defence.

Monks have better defenses than Assassin, Scout, Warrior, Wizard, Druid, Bard, Healer. You can make an argument about barbarian, depending how prevalent entangles are on your field. That's not bad at all. You can at least didge (or block, some types) a spell ball. You have no real hope against an extended verbal. On our field, people verbal the good fighters, regardless what class they are playing. I'd much rather kill the other team's best fighter, even if he has no armor, than Walter the Worthless in his seven points of plate.

D. Poor melee offense.

You have two swords. That's as much offense as anyone else gets. Only Warriors can enhance their weapon, and they can only enhance one of them if they're florentine. If you're referring to Berserk, it only happens twice. Those are also the two melee-heavy classes, and they trade all monk's nifty abilities for "hit people with swords". Warriors and Barbarians aren't any more effective with a pole either, and have the added disadvantage that that giant pole makes a huge arrow target, which a monk is immune to. ON a field with halfway decent archers, you really need a monk as your pole man, because poles will often be easier targets than the person using them. Also, the monk can pull a hand off the pole to bat aside a projectile flying in his direction. Other classes just have to suck up the projectile.

E. Poor ranged offense.

Throwing weapons are the most effective non-magic ranged weapon in the game. A much higher rate of fire, they can be much more unexpected, and they're easier to carry and melee while you're carrying. Either your monks can't throw, or your shuriken suck. the only real problem is not that they suck, but that too many other classes get access to this excellent weapon.

F. Poor weapon options.

You're obviously a person who only fights sword and board. There are a lot of people who never use a shield. They prefer florentine and are good at it. There are also a lot of people who use both styles, but are better florentine. Just because you are stuck on shield-only does not mean the rest of Amtgard is. For many people, a "no shield" limitation isn't even worth noticing.

G. Monks have three lives. The fourth is given away to a class thats actually effective.

Transfer life is fantastic. You can transfer it to a healer, then get ressed by the healer, giving both of you an extra life. If you're stomping the other team because you're actually a good fighter, you can give it to a less fortunate team mate, which can be very helpful in many objective-based battlegames. Or you can keep it and have just as many lives as most other people, and one more than those poor first-level barbarians and druids.

H. Banish.

This is awesome for quests. Just because you don't like quests or roleplay does not mean that there aren't a number of people in Amtgard who do.

I. Heal self

Probably my favorite ability. Being a florentiner often means getting armed while you kill the other guy. Being able to solve that problem, especially if you don't have a healer or your healer is dead, means you're quickly back to full effectiveness. It also means people can't use the "leg 'em and leave 'em" tactic against you.

Overall, I think the author's real problem isn't that monk sucks, but rather that the author sucks as a floretiner. If you want armor, a shield, an enhanced weapon, extra lives, and a shield, for God's sake, don't play monk. Play warrior. If your whole complaint about monk boils down to "it isn't warrior", then just go play Warrior.

Why Monks are bad.

Tanath

The thing about monk:

A. No armor. NO ARMOR. This translates into poor melee performance. One hit, your toast. Thats HORRIBLE for a melee class. Even assassins get armor, and everyone makes fun of them.

B. Poor ranged defense. You heard me. While missile block can block arrows, so can shields, and do a much better job of it as well. Shields can easily block an arrow the wielder does not see coming, while a monk has to practice "active defense". Shields rarely miss, too.

C. Poor magic defence. Monks are total spellball bait, because they arn't immune to a single one of them. They don't have an enchanted shield to block a fireball with. They don't have a pro-mag, because they have to take an armor spell to make up for their melee-suckery. They only thing they are immune to are long range verbals, which you save for casters, archers, and fullplate goons anyway, not light fighters.

D. Poor melee offense. They can't enhance their weapons. A barbarian or warrior with a polearm hits harder than a monk, so why go monk? The sanctuary monk missle is all they have going for them, and any decent archer/caster can blow that out of the water.

E. Poor ranged offense. They have throwing weapons only, and throwing weapons blow. Only warriors have less ranged options than monks.

F. Poor weapon options. Ditching sword and board eliminates the most popular weapon combo in the game. No armor does a good job of hosing florentiners as well. This makes polearm pretty much your only effective weapon choice for monk, and warriors and barbarians do it better. (see item D)

G. Monks have three lives. The fourth is given away to a class thats actually effective.

H. Banish. Whatever.

I. Heal self = suckfest. You don't have a shield, so the awesome ability of healing yourself is pretty much wasted on you. If your wounded, your probably going to lose the fight.

Response to Tanth's post by Sirrakhis

the disclaimer. there is always a reaction that will win an engagement. Dont pipe up with something like "He would still die if I was the one shooting."

"A. No armor. NO ARMOR. This translates into poor melee performance. One hit, your toast. Thats HORRIBLE for a melee class. Even assassins get armor, and everyone makes fun of them."

After the first 1-3 levels the monk stops getting hit for some inexplicable reason. This usually has to do with physical evasion, blocking and riposte tactics that are learned very quickly by most players of the class. By the time the monk hits six level, they rarely see engaging someone with armor as a disadvantage. And shield people are just plain fun to own.

"B. Poor ranged defense. You heard me. While missle block can block arrows, so can shields, and do a much better job of it as well. Shields can easily block an arrow the wielder does not see coming, while a monk has to practice "active defense". Shields rarely miss, too."

Prowess in archery doesnt nuke monks ability...it encourages and justifies them. My hand-eye coordination is scary...why? a couple decades of people seeking you out with their bows and such will encourage some pretty deft blocking skills. You are argueing ease of use versus performance and skill, not handicap versus elite.

Your comparison in skill here is similar to the flail. Flails allow medichre players to achieve better than mediochre amounts of hits. The armor-allowed classes allow them to perform on par with players that have not had the advantage of using armor but are used to facing it.

"C. Poor magic defence. Monks are total spellball bait, because they arn't immune to a single one of them. They don't have an enchanted shield to block a fireball with. They don't have a pro-mag, because they have to take an armor spell to make up for their melee-suckery. They only thing they are immune to are long range verbals, which you save for casters, archers, and fullplate goons anyway, not light fighters."

Lemme get this straight...Immunity to Awe/Fear, Charm, Confusion, Feeblemind, Legend, Lore, Mute, Truth, Yield, Doomsday, Finger of Death, Killing Grounds, Mutual Destruction, Touch of Death, and Wounding is good at all. Do you not realize that only one verbal can kill a monk outright, and only a couple others subdue him? The monk is a far better mage-killer than tanks are...why? Because they arent wearing armor and can chase them down...

"D. Poor melee offense. They can't enhance their weapons. A barbarian or warrior with a polearm hits harder than a monk, so why go monk? The sanctuary monk missle is all they have going for them, and any decent archer/caster can blow that out of the water."

To credit you more than you credit the item you just cited...Cruise Missle Monks no longer exist. Monks cannot run in Sanctuary. Not to shoot you down, people playing monk are forced to excel in skills the other classes are not in order to function within the game. This isnt a deficiency, its actually the same, the different is that the modus operandi of playing the monk is simply different from the other classes. Et Al - They must actually learn the rules and learn how to fight without actually getting hit, versus learning how to hit successfully more times than an opponent in shorter period of time.

"E. Poor ranged offense. They have throwing weapons only, and throwing weapons blow. Only warriors have less ranged options than monks."

"Bleh, throwing weapons are what allows me to to casually mow through 6 points of armor without breaking a sweat on ya. But if you insist, I dont mind working for it either." This statement personifies what the monk sees as an advantage. This perception is integral actually, as the player will eventuially have to embrace this mentality or he will end up hating the game as well as his choice in classes. Not everyone is cut out for the class, but those runts tend to made due with another class in the same manner other players suych as myself have embraced the Monk.

"F. Poor weapon options. Ditching sword and board eliminates the most popular weapon combo in the game. No armor does a good job of hosing florentiners as well. This makes polearm pretty much your only effective weapon choice for monk, and warriors and barbarians do it better. (see item D)"

Weapon options on theMonk are fine. The biggest problem with the player using the Monk class must actually develope some skill in using his weapons as tools for defense as well as offense. Warriors and Barbars do pole better?! Well..I wouldnt know, you'll have to explain it to Forest sometime, he likes those stories.

"G. Monks have three lives. The fourth is given away to a class thats actually effective."

Actually, I teach this. Monks only get 3 lives....make them count. And the fourth is always for the most capable person on your team...period.

"H. Banish. Whatever."

hehe...You obviously havent teamed up with a couple other monks and killed the unkillable undead. Sure, it's a quest ability, but not such a bad one...Wink

"I. Heal self = suckfest. You don't have a shield, so the awesome ability of healing yourself is pretty much wasted on you. If your wounded, your probably going to lose the fight."

You smoke alot of crack. I played Healer to 3rd level solely so I could have unlimited heal and a few Res's. The monk gets more immunities constant, two heals and an insta-res. This is just a preference, not a disability. And when you're playing in a healer deficient game, thheal is pretty damn handy.

Anyhow, this is just what i had off the top of my head and I also tried to keep from quoting myself from the next installment of The Complete Monk (version 7.x will be finished by january).

The Monk Diaries

Tanath

Dear Diary,

Today was my first day playing Monk, again. I had left off exactly at second level from days loooong ago, so I started again at that point.

During these two battlegames, I was using florentine shorts, and no throwing weapons. I'm going to explore throwies in the next two weeks. Also, keep in mind that I don't backstab that much. I'll take it if its offered, but I don't plan my game around it.

I was late into the first battlegame due to some meetings, I so pretty much walked into a shitstorm, IE a shieldwall with archers eating my team up. I lost a life right off the bat to that.

Next life, our team bard used a "Hold Person" on Takee the warrior, and honor duel me against her to score an easy kill, so he thought.

My reply was "Dude, what the fuck. I'm a fucking MONK"

I did manage to get in an take off a few points of her armor (which belonged to me, ironically enough) before she got a luck shot in on my arm. I backed off and healed, jumped in and got another torso shot in. She then shouted the dreaded "FREE" at which point she armor-zerged me FTW.

Had I been playing something with even *1* point of armor or a shield, I would have easily won.

As it stood, I spent most of my fights dueling instead of butchering. Yes, you might be able to finesse and block and win, but you can't just steamroll an opponent to get past him to the wizard/archer/healer. The "shock factor" is very low.

However, I retract my comment about heal self. It turned out to be very useful.

In the second game, I browbeat my teams casters enough to set myself uppretty good.

First life, 2 barkskins. I got a plethora of kills, until I was backstabbed.

Second life, the bard dropped a berserk on me. I mowed the field like that guy from "Dead Alive", and a healer followed me around, putting me back together. While barbarians do it better, Berserk is a great enchant for a monk; I blocked the arrows that would eat a BB for breakfast. We won, easily.

All in all, day one was fun, but I stand by my opinion that Monk NEEDS armor enchants to be effective

MicDeath

What is a monk you ask? We are the healers and archers bitches, plain and simple. We provide protection to healers (or magic classes) and as well as archers. You are the meat shields for them, you are to stand in front of them and fend of any projectiles that come to you. Take out any opponent that comes your way, or at least slow him down with your corpse while your now unprotected person runs off... If you are lvl 1-3 that is.

At those crucial levels you are to learn your class. You are to learn that you have no armor, you die in 1-2 hits, you can hit flying stuff (or at least try to), You are to learn your very core of monking skills in this level range, and you are to drill this in your head, you ARE your teams bitch, you ARE to protect your teams healer(and magic casters) and your archers from enemy fire and that beserking barbarian... We'll discuss training later.

What kind of duties do you expect to do? As mentioned you are to be the meat shield for your teams magic casters and archers. You are expected to keep any enemies projectiles from hurting your team. You are also expected to take out anybody who is dumb enough to come after the person your protecting. Simple isn't it? Yes, it IS that simple.

What shouldn't a monk do? (for lvls 1-3) Well, you shouldn't be going gun-hoe on the other team thats whats you shouldn't be doing. You should never take on a warrior with 7 point armor and wounds kill flouratine. You should never take your eye off the enemy archers and spell ball slingers. You should NEVER give you life away to newbie or anybody who dies a lot, basically if they can't get at least 25 kills per life, they aren't worth your insta-rez. Never claim you are immune to projectiles simply because you are a monk. ONLY YOUR HANDS AND WEAPONS ARE! Never ever EVER cast ToD (Touch of Death) while standing in the middle of the field. Never try discharging ToD through armor. Don't let that bard or druid confuse you, because if your lvl 3, your are now immune to their confusing jabbering.

What shouldn't a monk do? (for lvls 4-6) By this point in time you should know that barbarians, warriors, and scouts are off limits for the time being. (See FieldTips) By now you should have you eyes keeping an ever so close eye on them archers and spellball slingers. So lets assume your not retarded like you were in your first 3 levels shall we? Do not block with your hands unless you know you will succeed in blocking that projectile. Because if you miss, it's either a limb or your life. Least with your weapon you got a higher chance of getting out of the way. Never forget your sanctuary. Never start sanctuary in your base for the love of Buddha. Never run in sanctuary, nor should you ever jump during sanctuary. All so, please refrain from walking into the enemies base while in sanctuary. Also, never start sanctuary while forgetting you have a weapon in hand, and keep chanting until you get killed and then you realize you had a weapon in hand. Hey congrats on your 2 per life heal now, never heal another person. Please Save the monk class the embarrassment.

Why should you play a monk? We are the bargin bin class. All we need is sash, garb and weapon. Thats it. Being a monk can heighten your battle field awareness, and it should. You will learn to dodge attacks, projectiles, and spell balls. Even up to the point where the wizard is 3-4 feet in front of your throwing 6 inch spell balls and you dodge them all.* You will learn how to effectively fight WITH your weapon, and not fight with A weapon. You will also learn that you can play and win with out armor. You will get your "rush" playing this class since you must keep a keen mind on enemy location, archer locations, spell balls slinger locations, and those 2 beserking barbarians charging at you that is being followed by a 7 point tank. There is no greater rush that going into sanctuary, killing that tank with a bare touch on that exposed elbow, and then subduing the two barbarians. and then you taking our their arms and see them Fight After Death with no arms. Or when you bitch slap an archers arror back at them.

So, you want to be more skilled as a monk you say? Read the TrainingTips for some pointers. But being a skilled monk isn't all that difficult really. ALL you need to do is practice keeping a sharp mind on your enemies locations, your class skills, and how to effectively use them.

TrainingTips:

Dodging:

Melee: Have one friends try to hit you. you simply dodge as long as you can. then move to two friends and then some.

Projectile: Have a friend try to hit you within 10-20 feet. You simply dodge as long as you can. Then add two friends and then some.

Spell Balls: Have a friend try to hit you within 5-10 feet. Simply dodge as long as you can. Then add two friends and them some.

Sum up: All you are trying to do is learn foot work. Shift your body in a way that the items will not hit you. It's all in the feet baby.

Skills: Self Heal: Lear it as fast as you can. Say the incantation every night before going to sleep, when ever your bored and what not. Transfer Life: Learn what it can do, give that extra Life or instant rez that tank with pro mag and wounds kill? Touch of Death: Learn it, love and say it fast. Find every open spot you can use it and do use it. Banish: Quest skill, good to learn, fun when finally able to use. Sanctuary: You will use it every life, so learn it, and learn it good. There are loop holes, and they are fun. Wink

Blocking Projectiles: Arrows: They are fast, really slow actually. Just learn to place your weapon/hand in the right spot and it'll be a dead arrows soon. Simply have an archer shoot at you ad you try to block it. Once you can block more often that not move up to 2 archers and then to three. Then start learning to block with your hands. You will be deflecting more arrows than swords. If you're doing your job that is. Javalines: Just learn to side step and push away, or just side step. Learn by having people throw them at you. Rocks: .......they are big slow things, if you can't block them, learn how to do so then. Throwing weapons: Just practice blocking them with a friends or three.

Melee: Ditch: As much as you can. Get to know your weapon. Know how it'll move if you do this or that, know were it's center of weight is, learn to take advange of it.

FieldTips:

Sanctuary: Always carry a dagger or a short sword tied to your belt or what not. Usually 2 daggers or 2 shorts are great, that way you can walk around find a good clumped up group and back stab/swing them all. Have a wizard cast Pro-Projectiles and stacked pro-magic. Have fun going into sanctuary and then ToD'ing a magic user and then killing off the archers and what ever there is left of the magic users. Make people fear you when you go into Sanctuary. Simply being able to disrupt a whole team by going into sanctuary can mean win or lose for your team. God knows I tied down spell casters and archers by sanctuarying near them and walk- chasing hem around while they try and try to kill me. Why is this good for the team? They are focused on you and not on them, thats why. Hell, I was actually able to turn the tide of a battle game simply by disrupting a big groups of warriors, spell caster simply because they didn't want to die. I went into sanctuary for 55 or so minutes. Never died that game. Did I turn the tide by killing them? No, I helped teh team by keeping the other team disrupted and disorganized.

ToD: I usually use it on 2nd down (two deaths) with sanctuary to form the walking touch of doom. But a good tactic is to bluff that you are going to use it. Simply start the incantation and stop at 10 or so. A good scare tactic when you go into sanctuary. Ever heard the tale of the boy who cried wolf? Twisted Evil

Weapon fun: I Like to do this a lot. When I can, I get blade sharp and wounds kill on my pole arm, for a good 6 dmg and wounds kill. Archers can't make it go bye bye, only wizards can, and if you dumb enough to let them make it go bye bye, then ya deserve it. anyhow, it's great to one hit kill anybody, My most recent usage of this combo was a bridge battle. I made SURE nobody came to my side. 3 hits to shield and it goes bye bye, and the next hit would off them. SO shield guys tended to stay put. The barbarian who for some reason was suicidally kept coming to me to die. Needless to say he did. Other then that, the pole arm reeked of power. And I loved it. I may be immune to control, but that doesn't mean my opponents are.

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