Difference between revisions of "Talk:Sathallarin"
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Updated the page to reflect his admission of wrong and attempts to make it right. Rechecking to assure that everything included is purely factual and not conjecture. | Updated the page to reflect his admission of wrong and attempts to make it right. Rechecking to assure that everything included is purely factual and not conjecture. | ||
| − | [[User: | + | [[User:Larin_Moonstar|Larin]] |
Thanks Larin; I have also Emailed Sathallarin to apprize him of the situation and to give him a chance to put in his cents. | Thanks Larin; I have also Emailed Sathallarin to apprize him of the situation and to give him a chance to put in his cents. | ||
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I have known Sathallarin for a long time and I know of the things mentioned here and much more. Everyone calls things placed here facts and not to mess with them but isn't the whole point of this is so people can input their own ideas and opinions as stated in "If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then don't submit it here." Well then that shows that whatever people write it can be edited but in Sathallarin's case you block it so people can't. Also Sath has not inputed any info on this because he has already said his piece to everyone at CG and on the radio show. So why does he have to here especially when his apology is already stated. None of you know him personaly. Sure you may have talked to him in passing but you don't "know" him so you can write what you want and call them facts but the only ones who know the real facts are his friends and those that he confides in. So take your own advice, as quoted, "If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then don't submit it here." Thank you for your time... It's been over 4 years, it's time to let things die. He has done what he feels he must for the better good, just don't take that as a sign of weakness and a sign that anyone knows what really hapened because you do not... Thank you for your time... | I have known Sathallarin for a long time and I know of the things mentioned here and much more. Everyone calls things placed here facts and not to mess with them but isn't the whole point of this is so people can input their own ideas and opinions as stated in "If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then don't submit it here." Well then that shows that whatever people write it can be edited but in Sathallarin's case you block it so people can't. Also Sath has not inputed any info on this because he has already said his piece to everyone at CG and on the radio show. So why does he have to here especially when his apology is already stated. None of you know him personaly. Sure you may have talked to him in passing but you don't "know" him so you can write what you want and call them facts but the only ones who know the real facts are his friends and those that he confides in. So take your own advice, as quoted, "If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then don't submit it here." Thank you for your time... It's been over 4 years, it's time to let things die. He has done what he feels he must for the better good, just don't take that as a sign of weakness and a sign that anyone knows what really hapened because you do not... Thank you for your time... | ||
| + | |||
| + | [[User:Dephen|Dephen]] | ||
Cira, I think that all of us would be more inclined to listen if there was more to his defense then "You just don't know", and "You weren't there." I emailed him personally. I tried to ensure that the article would be fair. You only deleted information which Sathallarin himself admitted to be factual. This happened, It's over, you are right. But that doesn't mean that you get to erase it from the history books because you don't like it. | Cira, I think that all of us would be more inclined to listen if there was more to his defense then "You just don't know", and "You weren't there." I emailed him personally. I tried to ensure that the article would be fair. You only deleted information which Sathallarin himself admitted to be factual. This happened, It's over, you are right. But that doesn't mean that you get to erase it from the history books because you don't like it. | ||
| − | [[User: | + | [[User:Linden|Linden]] |
I take offense to someone posting childish things like Liar liar liar pants liar, and edited only what I felt was uncalled for at the time- after you made it purely factual I ceased to do edits- this is purely a subjective and very emotional situation from where many people are sitting. | I take offense to someone posting childish things like Liar liar liar pants liar, and edited only what I felt was uncalled for at the time- after you made it purely factual I ceased to do edits- this is purely a subjective and very emotional situation from where many people are sitting. | ||
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However, stepping back I do see how muddled the issue becomes when other people’s agendas are involved- whether they were a part of the incident or not. | However, stepping back I do see how muddled the issue becomes when other people’s agendas are involved- whether they were a part of the incident or not. | ||
| + | [[User:Cira|Cira]] | ||
Good Point... "I am beginning to think it was a mistake to encourage him to deal with this- but for what it’s worth I still support him as a friend and a fellow Amgarder. I have faith that this will blow over, and we can all move on from this and grow, and learn. However, stepping back I do see how muddled the issue becomes when other people’s agendas are involved- whether they were a part of the incident or not." In other words, it's been over 4 years it's time to let things die... It's getting old... | Good Point... "I am beginning to think it was a mistake to encourage him to deal with this- but for what it’s worth I still support him as a friend and a fellow Amgarder. I have faith that this will blow over, and we can all move on from this and grow, and learn. However, stepping back I do see how muddled the issue becomes when other people’s agendas are involved- whether they were a part of the incident or not." In other words, it's been over 4 years it's time to let things die... It's getting old... | ||
| + | |||
| + | [[User:Dephen|Dephen]] | ||
| + | |||
| + | If this front page is supposed to be only facts listed, then why is | ||
| + | there more then just facts. There are pieces like this- "Is probably | ||
| + | the most (in)famous for the Sathallarin incident. Over the course of 6 months, Sathallarin created a fighting company of mostly newbies called the Mithral Host as an portion of the Emerald Hills Elven Court. During this time he began telling people that he was a knight, mostly to the members of the fighting company he founded." This paticular piece of literature starts out with an opinion, and only goes on to insinuate | ||
| + | that Sathallarin intentionally lied to his company. | ||
| + | |||
| + | There are more insinuations, opinions , and assumptions throughout | ||
| + | the page. | ||
| + | |||
| + | If the page is to be locked, and is supposed to contain facts. | ||
| + | Then it should contain facts, not opinions, assumptions, or | ||
| + | insinuations. | ||
| + | |||
| + | [[User:FalQuinn|FalQuinn]] | ||
| + | |||
| + | I don't have exact data conserning every single person he told he was a knight during that period. The investigation first began when members of the Mithral Host mentioned something about Sath saying he was a knight in passing to other members of Morningwood Glen. It was mearly speculation that Sath was passing himself off as a knight until he played Paladin at WBW. I'm sorry I am unable to provide these names and dates for you, but most of the members of that company, and the elven court of the EH, stopped playing Amtgard after this occured. However the portion leading up to the actual meat of the incident I felt needed to be added. Did he intentionally lie to his company? Some of the members that I talked to at the time seemed to think so. Do I know for a fact that Sathallarin lied knowingly to people? I cannot claim that nor could anyone else because it would be impossible to prove completely. It does look bad that he changed where his belt came from when we mentioned that Neverwinter wasn't a kingdom in 1996 though. I understand the need to nitpick minor details when you have to defend someone against a case so universally damning, but its a bit of a losing battle here. Should you wish to discuss this with me and get all the information I have to share on the subject I would be happy to talk with you or anyone. [email protected] | ||
| + | |||
| + | [[User:Larin_Moonstar|Larin]] | ||
| + | |||
| + | Webpage needs pictures. Seriously. | ||
| + | [[User:Glen|Glen]] | ||
| + | |||
| + | The article came across as petty and very juvenile the way it was written. I have edited this for anything that would be considered supposition or inflammatory in nature. Just cold hard facts as opposed to what he/she thinks. | ||
| + | [[User:Cira|Cira]] | ||
| + | |||
| + | |||
| + | "Good Point... "I am beginning to think it was a mistake to encourage him to deal with this- but for what it’s worth I still support him as a friend and a fellow Amgarder. I have faith that this will blow over, and we can all move on from this and grow, and learn. However, stepping back I do see how muddled the issue becomes when other people’s agendas are involved- whether they were a part of the incident or not." In other words, it's been over 4 years it's time to let things die... It's getting old..." | ||
| + | |||
| + | Dephen | ||
| + | |||
| + | I did not write the above paragraph... | ||
| + | |||
| + | Dephen | ||
| + | |||
| + | |||
| + | == Glen == | ||
| + | |||
| + | Article has misspellings and weasel words. Call a spade a spade already. Fixed this. Article is slightly jumbled, making it sounds like founding the Mithril Host is something that caused a scandal. Fixed this. Also, still needs pictures. Did not fix this. | ||
| + | |||
| + | == Redirects == | ||
| + | |||
| + | I added some links and took out redundant line. Still needs better organization. [[User:Linden|Linden]] 17:07, 12 November 2007 (EST) | ||
| + | |||
| + | ===Re-added=== | ||
| + | Replaced the line about neverwinter and removed the line about the guild master of knights threatening file assault charges. Also removed the line about "No proof of attendance at Banner Wars" as patently false. I will also post about this on the Emerald Hills List and The Amtwiki forum, as much of the other added information seems exaggerated, false or opinionated. [[User:Linden|Linden]] 10:54, 20 December 2007 (EST) | ||
| + | |||
| + | Posted: T''Italic text''hu 22.05.2008, 01:15 Post subject: | ||
| + | SirAngrist wrote: | ||
| + | |||
| + | His petty little friends still back him up on it and call anyone who questions him into question. While I'm not a voting member of CG (yet), my personal views are noted and documented. | ||
| + | |||
| + | I don't particularly think he'll win, but rest assured, if he does, I'll be there every step of the way to call bullshit. | ||
| + | |||
| + | >From: "Sathallarin TeQuinildor LeQuella" <[email protected]> | ||
| + | |||
| + | |||
| + | |||
| + | >Subject: REINSTATEMENT | ||
| + | >Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 00:26:40 -0600 | ||
| + | > | ||
| + | >Via my contacts in the Knights Circle of the EH, I have been notified | ||
| + | that | ||
| + | >the EH will issue a formal apology for the transgressions against me | ||
| + | in the | ||
| + | >EH. The Knights Circle has decided that I have commited no crimes, | ||
| + | and did | ||
| + | >not unjustly wear the white belt. This is no shit and for real. What | ||
| + | |||
| + | >information I have recieved and what information was given to the | ||
| + | Knights | ||
| + | >circle is a matter that is privy only to them and myself, and no | ||
| + | other. | ||
| + | >As I stated on the MH list, I would be stepping down until this matter | ||
| + | was | ||
| + | >resolved, and would be returning to reclaim my post once it was | ||
| + | resolved. | ||
| + | >I did this so that if I went down only I would fall, and not the | ||
| + | company(a | ||
| + | >company I nurtured from the existance of three people into what you | ||
| + | are | ||
| + | >today), even though many of you saw this as a weakness. | ||
| + | >Even so, I return. I will not however, impose myself on an unwilling | ||
| + | >party, and therefore wish for the COUNCIL OF DETATCHMENT COMMANDERS | ||
| + | that I | ||
| + | >left in charge to convene and discuss this. | ||
| + | > | ||
| + | >Sathallarin TeQuinildor LeQuella | ||
| + | >Gon mithri-rilon | ||
| + | >Hir edhil ost Alfhiem | ||
| + | > | ||
| + | |||
| + | The above was taken from a post by Angrist on Esam and has been included here for historical purposes. --[[User:Linden|Linden]] 10:20, 22 May 2008 (EDT) | ||
Latest revision as of 14:20, 22 May 2008
While I do not agree with placing disparaging things on personal pages, facts, like the fact that this man claimed to be a knight but was not, should be a part of their history.
Updated the page to reflect his admission of wrong and attempts to make it right. Rechecking to assure that everything included is purely factual and not conjecture.
Thanks Larin; I have also Emailed Sathallarin to apprize him of the situation and to give him a chance to put in his cents.
Sathallarin has chosen not to put in his cents. Again I ask that only facts be included in this article. I also ask that others do not remove facts even if they find them distasteful.
I have known Sathallarin for a long time and I know of the things mentioned here and much more. Everyone calls things placed here facts and not to mess with them but isn't the whole point of this is so people can input their own ideas and opinions as stated in "If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then don't submit it here." Well then that shows that whatever people write it can be edited but in Sathallarin's case you block it so people can't. Also Sath has not inputed any info on this because he has already said his piece to everyone at CG and on the radio show. So why does he have to here especially when his apology is already stated. None of you know him personaly. Sure you may have talked to him in passing but you don't "know" him so you can write what you want and call them facts but the only ones who know the real facts are his friends and those that he confides in. So take your own advice, as quoted, "If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then don't submit it here." Thank you for your time... It's been over 4 years, it's time to let things die. He has done what he feels he must for the better good, just don't take that as a sign of weakness and a sign that anyone knows what really hapened because you do not... Thank you for your time...
Cira, I think that all of us would be more inclined to listen if there was more to his defense then "You just don't know", and "You weren't there." I emailed him personally. I tried to ensure that the article would be fair. You only deleted information which Sathallarin himself admitted to be factual. This happened, It's over, you are right. But that doesn't mean that you get to erase it from the history books because you don't like it.
I take offense to someone posting childish things like Liar liar liar pants liar, and edited only what I felt was uncalled for at the time- after you made it purely factual I ceased to do edits- this is purely a subjective and very emotional situation from where many people are sitting. I have no issues with the FACTS as you’ve stated, but to allow random garbage like I witnessed initially is not only unacceptable but very unprofessional. If you think about some of the folks that aren’t Amtgard -looking at Amtgard from the outside the whole situation smacks of “BURN the Heretics!” I have been involved in this situation for sometime- back when DS began making inquires many years ago I was approached by a couple of knights at SW and answered many questions regarding my knowledge of Sath and his travels to GE and GV and if he ever mentioned he was a Knight. I am aware of his end of the story- the circumstances behind his waiting and that hasn’t changed in the many years I’ve known him. Just before this apology Sir Vasa and I, based on the discussions we had with folks at clan this year that urged him to deal with this and resolve the issue. I am beginning to think it was a mistake to encourage him to deal with this- but for what it’s worth I still support him as a friend and a fellow Amgarder. I have faith that this will blow over, and we can all move on from this and grow, and learn. However, stepping back I do see how muddled the issue becomes when other people’s agendas are involved- whether they were a part of the incident or not.
Good Point... "I am beginning to think it was a mistake to encourage him to deal with this- but for what it’s worth I still support him as a friend and a fellow Amgarder. I have faith that this will blow over, and we can all move on from this and grow, and learn. However, stepping back I do see how muddled the issue becomes when other people’s agendas are involved- whether they were a part of the incident or not." In other words, it's been over 4 years it's time to let things die... It's getting old...
If this front page is supposed to be only facts listed, then why is there more then just facts. There are pieces like this- "Is probably the most (in)famous for the Sathallarin incident. Over the course of 6 months, Sathallarin created a fighting company of mostly newbies called the Mithral Host as an portion of the Emerald Hills Elven Court. During this time he began telling people that he was a knight, mostly to the members of the fighting company he founded." This paticular piece of literature starts out with an opinion, and only goes on to insinuate that Sathallarin intentionally lied to his company.
There are more insinuations, opinions , and assumptions throughout the page.
If the page is to be locked, and is supposed to contain facts. Then it should contain facts, not opinions, assumptions, or insinuations.
I don't have exact data conserning every single person he told he was a knight during that period. The investigation first began when members of the Mithral Host mentioned something about Sath saying he was a knight in passing to other members of Morningwood Glen. It was mearly speculation that Sath was passing himself off as a knight until he played Paladin at WBW. I'm sorry I am unable to provide these names and dates for you, but most of the members of that company, and the elven court of the EH, stopped playing Amtgard after this occured. However the portion leading up to the actual meat of the incident I felt needed to be added. Did he intentionally lie to his company? Some of the members that I talked to at the time seemed to think so. Do I know for a fact that Sathallarin lied knowingly to people? I cannot claim that nor could anyone else because it would be impossible to prove completely. It does look bad that he changed where his belt came from when we mentioned that Neverwinter wasn't a kingdom in 1996 though. I understand the need to nitpick minor details when you have to defend someone against a case so universally damning, but its a bit of a losing battle here. Should you wish to discuss this with me and get all the information I have to share on the subject I would be happy to talk with you or anyone. [email protected]
Webpage needs pictures. Seriously. Glen
The article came across as petty and very juvenile the way it was written. I have edited this for anything that would be considered supposition or inflammatory in nature. Just cold hard facts as opposed to what he/she thinks. Cira
"Good Point... "I am beginning to think it was a mistake to encourage him to deal with this- but for what it’s worth I still support him as a friend and a fellow Amgarder. I have faith that this will blow over, and we can all move on from this and grow, and learn. However, stepping back I do see how muddled the issue becomes when other people’s agendas are involved- whether they were a part of the incident or not." In other words, it's been over 4 years it's time to let things die... It's getting old..."
Dephen
I did not write the above paragraph...
Dephen
Glen
Article has misspellings and weasel words. Call a spade a spade already. Fixed this. Article is slightly jumbled, making it sounds like founding the Mithril Host is something that caused a scandal. Fixed this. Also, still needs pictures. Did not fix this.
Redirects
I added some links and took out redundant line. Still needs better organization. Linden 17:07, 12 November 2007 (EST)
Re-added
Replaced the line about neverwinter and removed the line about the guild master of knights threatening file assault charges. Also removed the line about "No proof of attendance at Banner Wars" as patently false. I will also post about this on the Emerald Hills List and The Amtwiki forum, as much of the other added information seems exaggerated, false or opinionated. Linden 10:54, 20 December 2007 (EST)
Posted: TItalic texthu 22.05.2008, 01:15 Post subject: SirAngrist wrote:
His petty little friends still back him up on it and call anyone who questions him into question. While I'm not a voting member of CG (yet), my personal views are noted and documented.
I don't particularly think he'll win, but rest assured, if he does, I'll be there every step of the way to call bullshit.
>From: "Sathallarin TeQuinildor LeQuella" <[email protected]> >To: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], >[email protected], [email protected], [email protected], >[email protected], [email protected] >Subject: REINSTATEMENT >Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 00:26:40 -0600 > >Via my contacts in the Knights Circle of the EH, I have been notified that >the EH will issue a formal apology for the transgressions against me in the >EH. The Knights Circle has decided that I have commited no crimes, and did >not unjustly wear the white belt. This is no shit and for real. What
>information I have recieved and what information was given to the Knights >circle is a matter that is privy only to them and myself, and no other. >As I stated on the MH list, I would be stepping down until this matter was >resolved, and would be returning to reclaim my post once it was resolved. >I did this so that if I went down only I would fall, and not the company(a >company I nurtured from the existance of three people into what you are >today), even though many of you saw this as a weakness. >Even so, I return. I will not however, impose myself on an unwilling >party, and therefore wish for the COUNCIL OF DETATCHMENT COMMANDERS that I >left in charge to convene and discuss this. > >Sathallarin TeQuinildor LeQuella >Gon mithri-rilon >Hir edhil ost Alfhiem >
The above was taken from a post by Angrist on Esam and has been included here for historical purposes. --Linden 10:20, 22 May 2008 (EDT)
